Beta readers
Mar. 14th, 2015 03:45 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sarillia posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
write_awayI mentioned a while back that I'm working on editing a novel for the first time and I've been thinking about the part where someone else is supposed to look it over to catch problems that I've missed. If anyone here would be willing to take a look at it and share their thoughts, let me know (it's high fantasy that's sort of political in that the big conflict is a protest movement). But mainly I wanted to talk about the subject generally.
I've never worked with a beta reader before, so I'd like to hear some experiences and advice. One thing I do know is that it's best to specify what sort of feedback you're most interested in. I've heard from a lot of people who wanted reactions to the characters and plot but the person who agreed to look it over did nothing but point out typos and grammar issues.
So, what do you have to say on the topic?
I've never worked with a beta reader before, so I'd like to hear some experiences and advice. One thing I do know is that it's best to specify what sort of feedback you're most interested in. I've heard from a lot of people who wanted reactions to the characters and plot but the person who agreed to look it over did nothing but point out typos and grammar issues.
So, what do you have to say on the topic?
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Date: 2015-03-14 08:02 pm (UTC)The problem, of course, is finding such a person. Or, better, several such people.
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Date: 2015-03-14 08:11 pm (UTC)I've actually been thinking about this a lot in the context of school. The lectures are fine because on tests I can see all the questions I got right in addition to the ones that are marked wrong, but the way the lab is set up this semester, I feel like the only feedback we're getting is about what we're doing wrong and it's just demoralizing.
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Date: 2015-03-14 11:28 pm (UTC)Hmm, one thing is: sometimes you fail to convey what you wanted, and you fail so badly your beta can't even tell what you were aiming at. And in that case, be aware that you might need to not take the suggestions. And sometimes your beta will spot a problem but not the correct solution. E.g., if they were to criticise introducing a new character in the climax to resolve things, they might be right that there's a problem. But they might say you need to find a different resolution, when you really need to introduce the character sooner. Or vice versa; maybe they'll say you need to spend more time developing a character who really needs to be cut out of the story entirely.
But if they don't understand something, it's unclear. By definition. Doesn't mean they know how to rewrite it, but if your beta doesn't understand something, you can't just be like "well, fine, it's a little vague but everyone will understand it anyway" because no, they won't. Not if your beta doesn't.
As for the beta request folded into this post: I like high fantasy but IDK how long it is or how quickly you want to finish with this. Maybe?
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Date: 2015-03-18 09:36 pm (UTC)But if they don't understand something, it's unclear. By definition.
This is how I approach all writing, even comments on here. I've always found it more productive to try to find a new way to express my thoughts if the first way wasn't understood rather than complaining about how the other person isn't reading it right.
As for the specifics of my story, the first draft was about 50k words. My first drafts are always rather bare bones and this thing is definitely growing in the second draft but I'm terrible at estimating this sort of thing so I don't know how long it will end up. I don't have a strict time frame either. I would love to be able to start querying by the end of the year but we'll see how realistic that is.
If you're really interested, I'd love to have your help, but no pressure. I've got a few other people who have said if it can wait a couple months then we can swap stories so I'm not without prospects at the moment.
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Date: 2015-03-19 02:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-03-23 05:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-03-23 07:06 pm (UTC)I'm not sure why you want to send it out a chapter at a time. Why not wait till you're done then send the whole thing? For one thing, even if you think you've fixed all the larger structural stuff, until you've run it by at least one beta I would bet you won't have gotten everything. There are always large-scale errors (or at least usually, for most writers) that you won't catch on your own.
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Date: 2015-03-23 07:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-03-23 08:38 pm (UTC)And yeah, I'd rather have the whole thing before I get started. But presumably there are people who would rather the other way?
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Date: 2015-03-15 12:15 am (UTC)I'm lucky enough that I have friends who are willing to let me know what works/doesn't work in my novels, not that this is always easy to hear. I'm still gutted over having had to cut a whole plot line from the war novel, but cutting that plotline (in addition with adding some character deaths) has really made it into stronger book.
If you've any friends who might be into the sort of book you write, especially ones you know can look critically at fiction, it could be worth it to ask them for their opinion. If need be, you can always prepare some questions for them to answer once they're done with the book.
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Date: 2015-03-18 09:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-03-16 11:21 pm (UTC)A whole novel is a lot for just one beta to edit - they're not getting paid, after all, and you haven't done beta yet for them in return. Be prepared to work with a succession of betas rather than just the one. That might turn out better, anyway, as each beta will notice different things. They can skim read the parts that come before. A good beta takes time. Make sure you leave enough for them to work. I estimate an allowance of one day per thousand words, once they've already agreed to do it.
Always feel 100% free to disagree with everything your beta says. A good one won't mind, and that disagreement can be really useful as it sharpens your focus about what you want to achieve (and probably aren't hitting quite yet). Although complete disagreement is probably a long term sign you aren't suited to each other.
Be prepared to find that wait between sending your story to your beta and opening the result back from them horribly, stomach turningly nerve wracking. It always is for me, but invariably worth it.
In my experience, the best way of finding betas is to
a) ask for them on beta search comms
b) first do beta for other people and then ask if they're free to do one in turn
c) join some kind of writing challenge or community which matches writers and betas as part of the process.
Other than that, what everybody else said. Have a clear, detailed exchange about what you both want from the process before you start.
Ideally both of you should read some of the other's work first, even if it's just a couple of blog posts. Then at least you have similar ideas about basic spelling and punctuation - not always a given.
One last note - don't forget to tell them what kind of English you write in, eg American, Australian, Hong Kong, UK. Don't just assume they use the same as you do.
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